decibel45: Shows how stupid .gov is

Decibel (

decibel45) wrote,
@ 2006-02-28 22:37:00

Shows how stupid .gov is
What happens when you obey the speed limit in Atlanta? All hell breaks loose...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5366552067462745475&q=

(24 comments) - (Post a new comment)

perception

cowbert
2006-03-01 07:16 am UTC (link)

Is it a problem with the law, or with people in general?

1. Traffic models show that a slightly slower consistent speed does not drastically affect time-to-destination, since the total average speed from origin to destination has not changed significantly.

1b. Rolling barriers reduce ongoing traffic jams.

2. I average 65mph because at that speed, I get the optimum gas mileage with time-to-destination. This is probably true for most vehicles, so slowing down means less gas use, which of course everyone knows the benefits of.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: perception heidinoel 2006-03-01 12:56 pm UTC (link)
	how much do you save by going 65mph? enough to matter? if it's under a dollar-- i'm going to keep going 80. something about being stuck in a car makes me feel its worth it... i need to get there now. i can't wait until teletransporting becomes popular. hehe (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: perception decibel45 2006-03-01 02:20 pm UTC (link)
	If you keep driving 80, the tarrists have won! (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: perception

cowbert
2006-03-01 04:30 pm UTC (link)

Compared to 80mph, at least 3mpg. This means across 10 gallons of gas (which is my typical fill-up), I have increased my range by 30mi driving near the speed limit. Considering that my commute is 60mi, that's the equivalent of one way!

In the event of a looming national fuel crisis, one of the most likely things .gov will consider will be to reinstate 55mph speed limits elsewhere, just as they did in 1974.

something about being stuck in a car makes me feel its worth it... i need to get there now.
Finally, isn't this part of the American mentality (pathology?) that fuels our excessiveness in everything we do or consume? "We want it and we want it now."

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: perception decibel45 2006-03-01 05:20 pm UTC (link)
	Finally, isn't this part of the American mentality (pathology?) that fuels our excessiveness in everything we do or consume? "We want it and we want it now." Sure, and that drive is part of what made this country so sucessful. You'll find few places where people work as hard as they do here. It's part of the reason we're the world's largest economy. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: perception ivo 2006-03-02 11:05 am UTC (link)
	Work hard, but also burn out earlier, with less time to actually enjoy "life", like taking a few weeks per year off to enjoy a good vacation. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: perception decibel45 2006-03-02 05:10 pm UTC (link)
	I never claimed there wasn't a trade-off. :) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Re: perception cowquat 2006-03-02 04:29 am UTC (link)
	I see little evidence that this is a mentality unique to Americans. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: perception

decibel45
2006-03-01 02:20 pm UTC (link)

1) #define 'slightly slower'. I thought I used to drive pretty fast between Austin and Chicago... averaging about 70. My best time before this year was about 18 hours (drive time).

This year, thanks to having a valentine one, I was able to average closer to 80. Drive time to Austin? 15 hours. And this was in the truck. Had it been the car it would have been even faster since I could have accelerated faster and taken better advantage of the few stretches with no cars.

1b) That's a) the most unscientific POS I've ever seen someone try and pass off as 'fact' and b) completely besides the point. Traffic in the video was nowhere near being a traffic jam.

2) That's completely dependent on the vehicle, but what's much more important is how hard you accelerate.

Something you're not considering is the amount of productivity lost by slow traffic every year in the US. Upping speed limits by 10MPH could easily cut average commute times by 5 minutes or more, which would result in a massive improvement in both productivity and quality of life. (Of course heavy use of working remote would be even better...)

If you want to drive slow, be my guest. Just stay the hell out of my way when you're doing it, and don't be forcing your beliefs onto me. Speed limits for safety are one thing, but even there a lot of 'facts' are based on biased studies out to show that 'speed kills' (speed doesn't kill. Differences in speed do.)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: perception

thomasj
2006-03-01 06:25 pm UTC (link)

Actually 1b has been widely quoted elsewhere and used in other sources for traffic models.

The real problem is not speed limits. The problem is the number of drivers, and the qualifications thereof. A large reduction of the number of drivers (by carpooling, mass transit, or telecommuting) would be as effective as raising the limit. Also stricter qualifications on licensing or more rigorous driver training would allow for higher speeds with similar safety.

High-speed "express" lanes for freeway are also another interesting option.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: perception

decibel45
2006-03-01 06:40 pm UTC (link)

Actually 1b has been widely quoted elsewhere and used in other sources for traffic models.

I always suspected traffic engineers didn't know squat... now I know it's true.

So let me get this straight... billions of dollars of construction money is being influenced by the observations of one guy that he made one day while stuck in traffic?? Utter lunacy.

Note that I'm not claiming that his 'findings' aren't true. What I'm saying is that his 'method' is about as un-scientific as you can possibly get. The *most* it should possibly be used for is an idea of something to study further.

In any case, you're absolutely right that there's a number of variables to consider, but my point remains: looking at the video, this has nothing to do with congestion. There's no reason to believe that the highway was operating at capacity. Sure, there was a bunch of cars backed up behind the 'rolling wall', but that proves nothing other than most everyone behind them wanted to be going faster than the speed limit. Had they shown a substantial (as in many miles) backup, then they would be showing that at the posted speed limit that highway had insufficient capacity. But they didn't do that. And knowing Atlanta, my guess is that if they'd attempted this anywhere near rush hour they wouldn't have proven anything because traffic would have been doing less than the speed limit to begin with.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: perception

cowquat
2006-03-02 04:32 am UTC (link)

Yea -- another way of putting it is that their conclusion is that the speed limit is too slow, but another equally reasonable conclusion (in my mind) is simply that they need to do a better job of enforcing the limit so that it isn't dangerous to follow it. They had the same problem in Houston when they dropped the limit to 55 -- it was freaking dangerous to actually drive that slow.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: perception decibel45 2006-03-02 06:56 am UTC (link)
	Step 1: elect officials Step 2: officials enact new speed limit, presumably because populace wants it Step 3: new speed limit sucks, populace ignores completely Step 4: PROFIT! (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: perception

cetan
2006-03-01 10:40 pm UTC (link)

High-speed "express" lanes for freeway are also another interesting option.

We have them in limited supply here in Chicago and they don't offer much of an advantage during rush-hour. The roads are jammed, period.

On either side of rush hour the speed/time difference is marginal but I seen it work well when one avoids an accident that's in the non-express lanes. However, the same accident in the express lanes is likely to cause an even greater delay.

When traffic is "light" the time difference is zero as the express and non-express lanes are moving at the same speed.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: perception

decibel45
2006-03-02 12:32 am UTC (link)

You missed the 'high speed' part. If the speed limit in either the reversibles or the Dan Ryan express lanes was, say, 65MPH instead of 55MPH I think it would absolutely help during non-rush hour times. I usually avoided them during non-rush times because I could usually zip through local lane traffic faster. If the express lanes were 65MPH (or, OH MY GOD, even 70!) that probably wouldn't be the case.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: perception cetan 2006-03-03 10:30 pm UTC (link)
	Well, I don't drive the speed limit in either set of lanes, so 70 in the reversables during non-rush-hour is pretty normal for me. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: perception decibel45 2006-03-04 12:54 am UTC (link)
	A lot of times I had trouble trying to do that since the rest of traffic wanted to crawl along... (Reply to this) (Parent)

	cutiepie74 2006-03-01 07:35 am UTC (link)
	That's pretty funny. (Reply to this)

	heidinoel 2006-03-01 12:45 pm UTC (link)
	that rox =) they tried to change our speed limit to 55 a few years ago (2002, i think?). but the only thing we got out of it was new "55" signs... then new "70" signs a year later. (Reply to this)

	spintorn 2006-03-01 02:19 pm UTC (link)
	that is HILARIOUS! i've driven in Atlanta, visited many times a sister that used to live there and would visit friends/family while i was in college...and it can be pretty scary...compared with Houston, I feel much safer on Houston's streets, than Atlanta's! :) (Reply to this)

	(Anonymous) 2006-03-01 07:47 pm UTC (link)
	WTF is a Google Video File? sigh Just what we need, more freaking video standards I will never download a player for. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	paradox0220 2006-03-01 07:48 pm UTC (link)
	insert weekly rant about how much I hate LJ logging me out silently (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	xomox 2006-03-01 08:53 pm UTC (link)
	Strange, my Opera 7, Firefox 1.5 and IE 6 play it just fine out of the box without needing any additional codecs. (Reply to this) (Parent)

belleaire
2006-03-02 01:58 am UTC (link)

They did that between Fort Worth and Dallas years ago when I-30 first opened up as a free road, after they took the tollbooths down. The news crew drove the speed limit, just as the kids in the video did. People passed on the shoulder and threw stuff at them and waved with one finger and yelled then, too.

My solution is to get 18-wheelers off the road two hours a day, 7-8 a.m. and 5-6 p.m. Park those behemoths and let the cars get through rush hour without trucks blocking the roadways. They can't accelerate as quickly as cars, thus keeping jams slow when they could be breaking up, and they sure can't stop as quickly.

Yeah, I know that would never go over, but it's nice to dream sometimes.

(Reply to this)

(24 comments) - (Post a new comment)

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